Talking Point:
Dispensationalism Weighed And Found Wanting
Join Boyd Roberts and Al Persohn as they interact with "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting" by John R Ecob
Those wanting a copy of this book can get it free at: http://www.heraldofhope.org.au/books.html
HOW TO USE THIS PAGE
Three MP3 files can be downloaded from links on this page. Users with broadband will be able to download the files in a few minutes. We suggest holding the mouse over the link and using 'right click' to save the file locally.
Download Session One:
Boyd and Al talk generally about "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting". They address various inconsistencies in the Dispensational Position. There are also several minutes of dialogue on whether the seven churches actually represent seven ages. Boyd comments that the seven ages position is a case of unnecessary spiritualisation of a directly literal text. Al asks Boyd if he is aware if Herald of Hope have written: "Dispensationalism Weighed And Found Wanting". Boyd was pretty sure they had not. Boyd's quotes from Dean F.W. Farrar where Farrar claims to embrace the Preterist position. This direct quote flies in the face of John Ecobs comments on Page 3. Both speakers discuss the Antisemitism in the Dispensational position, they also observe that Replacement Theology is built into Dispensationalism. Boyd and Al suggest that the vast majority of "Date Setters" or "Date Suggesters" are Dispensationalists. They propose that the current Imminent Rapture teaching as taught by H.O.H. depends on two suggested dates, one being the date of the beginning of the Laodicean Age and the other that at this time, in their position, the AntiChrist must be alive.
Download Session Two:
Preterism is reviewed. Boyd discusses the "this generation" comment Jesus makes in Matthew 24:34. He notes that even Dispensationalists say that every other use of "this generation" is a referent to Jesus contemporaries yet an exception is made in Matt. 24:34. This is one of the many Dispensationalist inconsistencies.
The Preterist position understands that time statements are literal and prophetic language can be figurative. Another way of clarifying this is to understand that "scripture interprets scripture". Al points the listener to the coming in the clouds statement in Acts 1:11. Dispensationalists teach a literal interpretation of the scriptures, yet ignore previous "cloud comings" in the Old Testament.
Boyd and Al discuss the date of the writing of Revelation. The Book of Revelation has several internal evidences pointing to the pre AD70 date of authorship. Many who teach that Revelation was written after AD70 base their understanding on Irenaeus' understanding. Irenaeus is hardly reliable as he also taught that Jesus lived to be 50 years old!
Download Session Three:
Boyd and Al address some of the point-form items on Pages 46 and 47of "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting". Boyd clearly demonstrates that the Land Promises to Israel have been fulfilled. Al does the fastest possible overview of the Dry Bones prophecy of Ezekiel 37. Boyd and Al discuss Daniel's 70 weeks.
Did The Throne Of David Cease in AD70?
On page 48 of Preterism Weighed and Found Wanting John Ecob states: “In his book entitled The Last Days Identified, Don K. Preston states that Christ returned in AD70 and David’s everlasting throne ceased for ever.” This is a misrepresentation of Don Preston’s teachings and the teachings of Preterists in general. Don never said David’s everlasting throne ceased in AD 70. What he actually said was “And, he came when the scepter was removed from Judah, at the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.” Don based his comment on Genesis 49:10, which says: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.” (NKJV) This is not the same as saying that David’s everlasting throne ceased in AD70. I am not aware of any Preterists that teach David’s throne ceased in AD70.
Preterists believe and the Bible teaches that when Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to the Father, he sat down at the Father’s right hand (Ephesians 1:20). This is the same as being seated on the throne of David. In Acts 2 when Peter discusses David’s Messianic prophecy about the Christ being seated on his throne, he says of David: “he, forseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.” (v. 31, NKJV). He goes on to talk about the exaltation of Jesus to the right hand of the Father in v. 33. Therefore, Peter saw the fulfilment of the prophecy of the Christ being seated on David’s throne as being fulfilled at His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.
Boyd Roberts
Coming Up:
Boyd will be back soon for a brief look at the Prophet Zechariah - One of the Best AD70 books in the Old Testament!
Join Boyd Roberts and Al Persohn as they interact with "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting" by John R Ecob
Those wanting a copy of this book can get it free at: http://www.heraldofhope.org.au/books.html
HOW TO USE THIS PAGE
Three MP3 files can be downloaded from links on this page. Users with broadband will be able to download the files in a few minutes. We suggest holding the mouse over the link and using 'right click' to save the file locally.
Download Session One:
Boyd and Al talk generally about "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting". They address various inconsistencies in the Dispensational Position. There are also several minutes of dialogue on whether the seven churches actually represent seven ages. Boyd comments that the seven ages position is a case of unnecessary spiritualisation of a directly literal text. Al asks Boyd if he is aware if Herald of Hope have written: "Dispensationalism Weighed And Found Wanting". Boyd was pretty sure they had not. Boyd's quotes from Dean F.W. Farrar where Farrar claims to embrace the Preterist position. This direct quote flies in the face of John Ecobs comments on Page 3. Both speakers discuss the Antisemitism in the Dispensational position, they also observe that Replacement Theology is built into Dispensationalism. Boyd and Al suggest that the vast majority of "Date Setters" or "Date Suggesters" are Dispensationalists. They propose that the current Imminent Rapture teaching as taught by H.O.H. depends on two suggested dates, one being the date of the beginning of the Laodicean Age and the other that at this time, in their position, the AntiChrist must be alive.
Download Session Two:
Preterism is reviewed. Boyd discusses the "this generation" comment Jesus makes in Matthew 24:34. He notes that even Dispensationalists say that every other use of "this generation" is a referent to Jesus contemporaries yet an exception is made in Matt. 24:34. This is one of the many Dispensationalist inconsistencies.
The Preterist position understands that time statements are literal and prophetic language can be figurative. Another way of clarifying this is to understand that "scripture interprets scripture". Al points the listener to the coming in the clouds statement in Acts 1:11. Dispensationalists teach a literal interpretation of the scriptures, yet ignore previous "cloud comings" in the Old Testament.
Boyd and Al discuss the date of the writing of Revelation. The Book of Revelation has several internal evidences pointing to the pre AD70 date of authorship. Many who teach that Revelation was written after AD70 base their understanding on Irenaeus' understanding. Irenaeus is hardly reliable as he also taught that Jesus lived to be 50 years old!
Download Session Three:
Boyd and Al address some of the point-form items on Pages 46 and 47of "Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting". Boyd clearly demonstrates that the Land Promises to Israel have been fulfilled. Al does the fastest possible overview of the Dry Bones prophecy of Ezekiel 37. Boyd and Al discuss Daniel's 70 weeks.
Did The Throne Of David Cease in AD70?
On page 48 of Preterism Weighed and Found Wanting John Ecob states: “In his book entitled The Last Days Identified, Don K. Preston states that Christ returned in AD70 and David’s everlasting throne ceased for ever.” This is a misrepresentation of Don Preston’s teachings and the teachings of Preterists in general. Don never said David’s everlasting throne ceased in AD 70. What he actually said was “And, he came when the scepter was removed from Judah, at the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.” Don based his comment on Genesis 49:10, which says: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.” (NKJV) This is not the same as saying that David’s everlasting throne ceased in AD70. I am not aware of any Preterists that teach David’s throne ceased in AD70.
Preterists believe and the Bible teaches that when Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to the Father, he sat down at the Father’s right hand (Ephesians 1:20). This is the same as being seated on the throne of David. In Acts 2 when Peter discusses David’s Messianic prophecy about the Christ being seated on his throne, he says of David: “he, forseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.” (v. 31, NKJV). He goes on to talk about the exaltation of Jesus to the right hand of the Father in v. 33. Therefore, Peter saw the fulfilment of the prophecy of the Christ being seated on David’s throne as being fulfilled at His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.
Boyd Roberts
Coming Up:
Boyd will be back soon for a brief look at the Prophet Zechariah - One of the Best AD70 books in the Old Testament!
Boyd Roberts and Al Persohn Respond To:
Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting
Preterism Weighed And Found Wanting
When Will This Book Be Written?